Whos Fault Is This?

[Jai]

This is nuts, 2 different views. Just by looking at it, he tried to take his gun. When he was on the porchase I guess it was within his right to shoot. But he wasnt a threat anymore.   

 

[772minitrucker]

Multiple times he was told to get off the property or leave. Firearm shown  as defensive, dude got hostile, fair play.

[Jai]

5 minutes ago, 772minitrucker said:

Multiple times he was told to get off the property or leave. Firearm shown  as defensive, dude got hostile, fair play.

yeah i kinda see the argument, plus you dont shoot to wound

[Boog1055]

He should have left.  

[772minitrucker]

Absolutely, him getting in his face when he showed he was armed and then attempting to take the firearm while saying he better use it or hed take it and use it is enough to seal the deal in my opinion. The only argument I can see is the hesitation, but who knows what would have happend if he hadn't of pulled the trigger. He even gave a warning shot into the porch which didnt stop the guy.

19 minutes ago, Jai said:

yeah i kinda see the argument, plus you dont shoot to wound

 

[Bear3825]

What state?  If it’s not a castle doctrine state  or a non retreat state the guy with the gun is 100% boned. By bringing out a weapon during the commission of a crime (even though it’s a civil crime) this guy could be in a heap of trouble. 

[Frankie Bones]

I like that the guy gave him the double tap, thats what happens when you try to take someone's gun off them

[Mathieu Corewyn]

I can see both sides here, and without any background story I think it is hard to judge. The "trespasser" should have left after being warned, on the other hand, he did state he was there to pick up his son and it seems they had no intent to let him just get his son, premeditated or not. Also strange that the woman in the car stayed so calm and unfased ?

[Poolboy]

this is a hard one honestly. He was told to leave multiple times, a warning shot was fired, and then the guy grabbed his gun. on the other hand i could see why the guy was angry but instead of acting like that he should have just called the cops and let them take care of it since its over custody of a child. I think both sides could be wrong in this situation but i also believe that the shooting was justified.

 

[ScooterStan]

I don't know, a domestic dispute does not justify shooting.  Is the dude dead?

[Don Iocco]

Pretty sure he is dead.  He was unarmed though.  I think boyfriend had a real hatred and is definitely going to be someones bitch in prison.  Wife of dead guy is suing for 50 million!

Edited December 6, 2021 by Don Iocco

[Kontraband]

Told to leave multiple times, check.
Grabbing the man holding the gun on his own property was not the right move.
Double tap, center of mass. Good night.

[Michael Goodman]

You have to know the laws when dealing in a situation like this!  Also reading from the comments it's one sided, imagine if you was this parent and was trying to pick up your child on the day and time you was ordered to by a judge and law and your ex said no to you. You would be mad too.

I have been through something like this but guns wasn't involved with mine.

This was over visitation rights over a child, and it was his day to pick up his child so by rights he is allowed to be there by law!

Because the father has the right to know the address where his child is living and where also times to pick up his child for his visitation rights! 

The parent was mad by right, as you heard it was his day and he was there at the time to pick up his child! But the female parent said "No"! Any father would be mad!

The male parent was mad but he was not being threatening or threatened anyone! Yes, they were arguing but By Law Words can't be construded as a threat, Now matter what is said! It is not "and a judge told me this too" Can Not be in the court of law counted as a threat! Plus the father was unarmed and empty handed!

Which is a huge no no, if you are going to claim self defense! He has NO case for that! Because 1. The male parent was unarmed, hand no weapon in his hand and was not being physical with no one! Remember yelling and any words can not be used as a threat!

2. The male who is living there has no part about the visitation rights of the child! That is between the mother and father! The male could act if the father was hitting or going to harm the female mother then that male by law can act! But that didn't happen.

3. Even though the male that is living in the house is telling the father to get off his property many times that doesn't nothing because the father has the right to be on the property at that time in the court of law because of the court ordered law set by the judge on paper he is allowed to be there at such time and at such date to pick up the child on the paperwork to be picked up by the father! I have been there done that!

4. The male of the house after arguing left and went inside the house! "Now that means he got away from the supposed threat!" Which by the law then you have to try to do and if you can. If you can by law you can not shoot the threat of the  person "This is before the Stand your ground law"!

5. The male returns back outside with a firearm in hand and brandished it at the father! "That brandishing a weapon right there is against the law also!"                                                                                             The male walks past the father and the father yells at the guy with the gun, still the father has not done nothing illegal! The male gets in the yard and then draws down on the father and shoots and kills the father! Now by law the male with the gun has just broken the law of manslaughter if not 2nd degree murder! He will go to prison for a long time!

Being a person who has his CCW permit that went to classes to get my permit we have tp always be on top of the gun laws always because they change a lot and in different states have different laws and we even have to keep track of them.  

 

[Curtis]

I predict the guy that shot is going to go to prison.  In the CPL class I was in we were told you can only legally use a weapon in self defense is when it's an active threat.  The guy walked away into his house and got the gun, and walked back out to confront the guy that got shot.  Even though the father was there what seems to be legally, the shooter guy could have closed the door, and called the cops if he thought he was the correct one.  Time will tell.

[Michael Goodman]

19 hours ago, Curtis said:

I predict the guy that shot is going to go to prison.  In the CPL class I was in we were told you can only legally use a weapon in self defense is when it's an active threat.  The guy walked away into his house and got the gun, and walked back out to confront the guy that got shot.  Even though the father was there what seems to be legally, the shooter guy could have closed the door, and called the cops if he thought he was the correct one.  Time will tell.

Exactly what I said. See you and I while having been through the classes to get our CCW permits we had to learn the all the correct Laws and what we con and cannot do!

Plus we have to be vigilant to know and keep up with the constant changes of the Laws! Which yea it is a pain in the asshole but we do not want to go to prison and like the

instructor said ignorance or not knowing the laws is not an excuse! Plus we both know and saw all the things he did wrong! He will go to prison! And I do belive this was before the "Stand your ground law" eas in effect but, still this does not apply to him either since he left to go inside the house to retrieve his weapon and came back outside armed to shoot him! He is fucked! 

[Michael Goodman]

What else got me is after he shot the other guy Nobody checked on him for what about 10 minutes??? Why??